Tulpa.info - metaphysics

I agree that just sweepingly saying something is true that just seems (at least to me) categorically not true, requires legitimate sources and while videos on youtube are a source they usually aren't that dependable. (edited)

this isn't a rigorous academic debate, any of you are more than at liberty to examine the backing studies and peer review. (edited)

4:58 PM

but I suggest you take them as given given they're being published by credible sources

4:58 PM

or at least well worthy of contemplation

4:59 PM

and what they're saying

You have not given any sources.

backs my own perceptions and experiences

These are videos unrelated to the topic.

in describing a quite magical life here on Earth

I havent read the whole convo I just saw the 'brain is quantom'

more so than the behaviorism and determinism seem able

what are you two actually arguing?

Honestly I don't know what this individual is arguing. They have sort of vaguely said life is magical, and also that the brain is a "quantum annealing device"

5:01 PM

The latter being observably false and they have not provided anything other than unrelated quantum mechanisms as sources in an effort to get across... what I don't know?

I said it's as if it might as well be.

As if quantum science's existing makes it so that all mechanisms must relate to it directly.

casts magic missile at Zen

5:02 PM

i love how people are like

5:02 PM

no

5:02 PM

reality (edited)

5:02 PM

you are NOT allowed to do this until science gives to you its stamp of approval. XD

5:03 PM

it's so preposterous I want to roll, giggling

Well, I'm sorry but that is how knowledge works. Otherwise you're accepting a hypothesis with no evidence.

5:03 PM

You're of course free to test your beliefs. But this is not a topic that hasn't been rigorously explored.

@chroma can you please explain to me what exactly you re arguing? Im genuinely curious and am really lost what each of you mean?

nothing, I'm just deflecting an endless barrage of empty skepticism to a point innocently made, pages ago (edited)

5:05 PM

Because I can.

So you are no longer arguing the position that the brain is a quantum device?

5:05 PM

Excellent.

then whats the thing that started the argument?

just didn't like the way someone was being assertive in their denial of others' possibilities

You don't like that I'm being assertive that the brain is a collection of neurons arranged in a neural network?

no, the determinism bit where you think you understand things you don't actually (edited)

Neural networks are deterministic.

like, that's stuff that was debunked in the 50s?

5:07 PM

with the behaviorists

5:08 PM

but here we are fighting the same crap battles that have been disproven again and again

5:08 PM

even though we're surrounded by rigorous science that says

5:08 PM

no

5:08 PM

quantum magic is real

1

5:08 PM

cope.

What are you even talking about? Once again, what does quantum science have to do with the brain?

5:10 PM

You sound like you just want desperately to believe that because quantum science is difficult to grasp that it must be related to magic and therefore reinforces your worldviews. Only it doesn't. Quantum science relates to things that occur on scales smaller than brain structures.

I have nothing else to add.

It is possible for quantum things to affect the latter. But the structure of the brain is observably a neural network of neurons.

5:10 PM

You also mention behaviorism, which is a narrow view of psychology.

5:11 PM

I don't know why. Behaviorism is the same sort of shenanigans that lead to stuff like Jung. It's not scientific.

5:11 PM

But neither are you being scientific.

Okay, Zen.

5:12 PM

I won't challenge your to view reality differently, I'm just a crackpot, don't worry about me

All I want is one source, one that actually implies the brain is a quantum device.

5:13 PM

Here's one for you though. This is my position on what you're experiencing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mysticism

Quantum mysticism

Quantum mysticism is a set of metaphysical beliefs and associated practices that seek to relate consciousness, intelligence, spirituality, or mystical worldviews to the ideas of quantum mechanics and its interpretations. Quantum mysticism is considered by most scientists to be pseudoscience or quackery.

You're just full of ideas about what other people must be

5:14 PM

and what reality is

5:14 PM

and you'll shout down all challengers

Sure, ones that are open to challenge.

cheers.

You haven't challenged my ideas.

5:14 PM

You've refused to engage with them at all.

5:15 PM

Which says to me that your beliefs are formed in the absence of evidence.

5:15 PM

Even logical conclusions I would accept.

5:15 PM

And possibly parse and try to challenge or integrate.

5:15 PM

But you've not given those either.

I'm not sure you're in the right #channel

5:15 PM

you don't seem to believe in #metaphysics at all

5:16 PM

I tried to give you a bridge from there to here

5:16 PM

but you feel it's unsound

5:16 PM

so over there you stand

No you're right, I'm absolutely a scientist first and foremost. My interest in metaphysics is in what it can teach us about practice, and what truths we can derive from the emotional gratification it seems to provide.

5:17 PM

I was a practitioner of spiritual and magical practices more than a decade ago. I've since evolved away from that, but I enjoy seeing how others interact with tulpas from different mindsets for example. This doesn't mean I'm going to accept wild claims without challenging them.

gratification?

5:18 PM

so you think metaphysics is about self-gratification?

Of course.

and you're here to make sure everyone knows it, too?

All human behaviour is self-gratification.

5:19 PM

Perhaps you misunderstand.

lu mah an
𒇽𒈤𒀭 
[whom to be great and of heaven]

5:20 PM

so you profane heaven by profaning humanity (edited)

5:20 PM

and metaphysics

There is no heaven but that which we will make. We are profane creatures of flesh and blood and we will die unless we create our own immortality.

in #metaphysics

That is my position, anyway.

that's high-grade trolling, isn't it?

This channel isn't intended to be a sounding board for delusions, to my understanding.

5:22 PM

Skepticism is not forbidden, here.

5:22 PM

If it were, I would leave gladly.

I appreciate your honesty.

either that or you're an alchemist :P (edited)

5:33 PM

and this is how you express your love

You jest but I totally do debate for fun and engagement with others.

5:33 PM

My tastes are strange for many reasons.

well at least that's something we can agree on. To strange tastes.

Also I do vibe more with alchemy and more rigid forms of magic.

Zen

You jest but I totally do debate for fun and engagement with others.

It frustrates tons of people but, isolated from the concern about being judged for debating in this way I love the shit out of this style of argument. No hostilities exist in it, just a person willing to sit and defend their side until the sun goes down to bounce your ideas off of and pick back and forth against. It's fun, not frustrating.

That is how I perceive it as well.

Thirded

In regards to this channel and disagreement, The official stance as far as I understand it is that argument and disagreement is allowed But in my view, I see the place here in #metaphysics in part exists to let metaphysics people express and discuss their ideas without anyone "pulling up arguments and disrupting it all the time". I try to sit back and let people go if they're talking about a topic I disagree with but are discussing the hows and whys instead of trying to prove it true. My rule "magic is real because X" -> totally willing to interject with my own thoughts. "If you want to Y, do Z" -> even if Y > Z is bullshit, I ... try, but maybe not always, to not interject or interrupt. (edited)

I would almost never interject oppositionally with the second because it's going to be a real mechanism for someone. Whether it's just a perception shift or not the actual practices of magic are usually sound.

5:42 PM

And messing with the beliefs of magic merely prevents them from being used.